February 14, 2008: Loss of a Daughter and the Gift of Organ Donation - Norma Garcia

HEALING THE GRIEVING HEART
Loss of a Daughter and the Gift of Organ Donation
Hosts:  Dr. Gloria Horsley and Dr. Heidi Horsley
With guest:  Norma Garcia
February 14, 2008
G: Hello, I’m Dr. Gloria Horsley with my co-host
H: Dr. Heidi Horsley.
G: Each week, Heidi and I welcome you to Healing the Grieving Heart, a show of hope and conversation with those who’ve suffered the loss of a loved one and for healthcare professionals who work in this most difficult field.  And always the message is others have been there before you and made it, you can, too.  You need not walk alone.  If you’re listening to our Thursday live Internet show, please join Heidi and me on the show by calling our toll-free number, 1-866-472-5792 with questions or comments regarding the losses in your life.  These shows are archived on our blog, www.thegriefblog.com, as well as www.thecompassionatefriends.org websites.  All shows can be downloaded on iTunes and transcripts can be accessed on www.thegriefblog.com.  Well, good morning, Heidi.
H: Morning, Mom.
G: Happy Valentine’s Day. 
H: Thank you.  You, too. 
G: Well, for a lot of our listeners, this is a mixed emotion day, I’m sure, don’t you think? 
H: Absolutely because I feel like Valentine’s Day is not just a couple’s day.  I was noticing out in the city today as I was walking, a lot of the children are carrying Valentine’s Day cards to give to their friends.  They’re getting candy.  It’s become more of a family day and so I think it reminds us of our children that have died on Valentine’s Day and all the wonderful Valentine’s we spent with them.  
G: Absolutely, and we put a little note on the blog to you all today on www.thegriefblog.com with a picture of roses and our comment today is, “You know what? Valentine’s is a day for remembering and giving love, but it’s a day also for you to give love to yourself.”  Don’t you think, Heidi? 
H: Yeah, I like that idea.  I like the things that you said and I know it’s from both of us, but to buy yourself chocolates or flowers and to take care of yourself today.
G: You may listen to some favorite music, go to a favorite art exhibit, just look at a book.  Give yourself a rose.  Give yourself a Valentine today.  
H: I agree.  I like that.
G: So it’s important to do that.  Do you want to talk about the poetry contest, Heidi?  Because today might be a great day to write a piece of poetry. 
H: Yes, you were saying earlier that today Valentine’s Day can inspire us and it can also get us in a kind of emotional place which is a good place often to be in when you’re writing poetry.  We’re having a contest and the poems need to be 30 lines and all poems that are submitted will be published throughout the year and there is a contest and there’s going to be prizes, and what else, Mom?
G: Well, I think we’ve already gotten some wonderful poems and we’re excited about it and it’s going well.  So check in on our blog, www.thegriefblog.com, and you’ll be able to read more about it and see how you log in.  Our guest today, Norma Garcia, has written some poetry and I’m going to ask her about it on this show, but poetry’s a wonderful way to remember your loved one.
H: And it’s such a great way to express yourself in a few words.
G: Absolutely.  Well, we got an email from Jerry from North Carolina and she asked us why we weren’t doing more proactive things.  Why we weren’t doing something with the show, ourselves, I guess, Heidi.  And I wanted to say that that’s kind of what we’re about, isn’t it?  Highlighting other people and what they’re doing?
H: Yes, and I feel like I’m a spokesperson and the voice of bereaved people everywhere and my message hopefully educates the world on how to be better grief support. 
G: Right, and then all the wonderful people that have done amazing things on our show like Carol Loehr who is very proactive, has written a book for children about suicide.  Her son killed himself and she has a wonderful website that you can go to, www.thegiftofkeith.org.  And just so many of our guests have wonderful websites, don’t they, Heidi?
H: Absolutely.  What I love about Carol’s book also, which is My Uncle Keith Died, is what it’s called for children.  It’s a preventive book so it’s a book for the public on how to recognize signs of depression and what steps you can take in order to help alleviate that depression.  
G: Absolutely.  And people have gone on to get sprinklers in dorms when their children were killed in a fire and it’s just on and on.  Some day we’re going to have to write all this down, what all these people have done, Heidi.
H: Absolutely.  And then we had two people on from MADD, Mothers Against Drunk Driving.
G: Right, we had the head of it.
H: And you interviewed the president, the national president of MADD who is a man, Glynn Birch, right, Mom?
G: Right, Birch.  Yeah, so as I told Jerry in an email that I sent to her, she’s doing some suicide prevention work also, and these people are our heroes, aren’t they?
H: Absolutely.  It’s amazing all the things people have done and they’ve done it so that another child will not die.  They will save lives through the death of their children.  They’re going to save lives through that.
G: And I think that’s a good lead in to our guest today because she’s doing an awfully lot of wonderful work on organ donation so would you like to introduce Norma today?
H: Sure, I’d love to.  As my mother said, our guest today is Norma Garcia and our topic is Loss of a Daughter and the Gift of Organ Donation.  Norma Garcia’s daughter, Jasmine, was killed in an automobile accident in 2001.  Norma is the single mother of Samuel, age 14, and is the owner of a realty firm in San Antonio, Texas.  Since Jasmine’s death, Norma has made educating the public about organ and tissue donation her passion in life.  She has served on the National Donor Memorial Advisory Committee for the United Network for Organ Sharing and assisted in the design of the memorial in Richmond, Virginia, which honors America’s donor families.  She recently completed a book, My Dear Jasmine: A Journey from Tragedy to Triumph.  Welcome to the show, Norma.
N: Hello.  Thank you.
G: It’s great to have you on the show, Norma.  I’m looking at your book.  It’s so beautiful and your daughter Jasmine is so absolutely lovely.  And there’s so many wonderful things that she’s written to you and I think they’re still an inspiration to you today, right?
N: Yes, they are.
G Yeah, could you talk a little bit about Jasmine and her death?
N: Okay, first of all let me tell you a little bit about Jasmine.  Jasmine was at the age of 13 when we had the accident.  She was a beautiful, vibrant little girl.  You see her in the picture, she had her beautiful long hair.  She was very loving, very encouraging, just full of life.  That was Jasmine for you and I think your next question was a little bit about the accident?  Is that what –
G: Um-hm.
N: Okay, the accident happened and it was August 2001.  We were taking probably one of the longest trips that we were going to be able to take with the children and it was nine days going.  We would always go into Monterey, Mexico to visit the family and this time we were going to into Oaxaca and Huatulco which is a beautiful beach.  We took the kids and had a wonderful time with them.  On our way back as we picked up the Ford Explorer at the airport, we were driving back into Texas and two hours before we reached Laredo, Texas, it was in a split second we began to roll over.  I just remember kind of opening my eyes because me and the children were asleep.  They were in the back seat and as I woke up I just heard my husband at the time say oh, my God, and we rolled over probably about three or four times.  Only God knows why.  I woke up.  I was able to wake up.  I couldn’t move much because I was pretty banged up but I looked to the side and the children’s dad was injured and moaning and groaning and then I looked to the back and Samuel had blood on his left ear and was in shock.  He was just screaming in shock and when I turned.  I kind of glanced for Jasmine.  There was nobody there in the back seat and it happened so quickly.  As I looked to the right of my window of the SUV, and luckily we landed right side up, Jasmine was on the ground probably about 30 feet from where I was.  So you can imagine for a mother.
G: Oh, yeah, being pinned in the car and not being able to get to her.
N: I was pinned in the car and yes, I was pinned in the car, and of course what you want to do is get out and go to her.  I couldn’t.  People started arriving very quickly.  They arrived to our doors and I kept pointing my hand out and telling them in Spanish “mi niña,” which means my little girl, and they kept telling me, reassuring me and praying and saying she was fine.  Everything was happening quickly.  They managed to get us out of the car, too, and covered her with a blanket, not on her body but kind of just blocking the sun from her.  And then after that I lost consciousness in and out.  I know the kids were taken in one ambulance and we were taken in another back into Monterey, Mexico, so from there everything started that day.  It was August 11, 2001, and I think for me as a mother, that moment was one of determination — that really was going to determine I guess my life from there on.  And I had to make a choice, if I was going to either live bitter or if I was going to continue with joy and want to live, because it was a moment that I was sure nobody for no parent to have to live.  We were there in Mexico in the hospital probably about 10 days with Jasmine.
G: Now were you concerned there about was she getting the best care or something in Mexico?
N: I was.  They had taken us supposedly to one of the best hospitals, which now I know was, which was a part of the Christus Santa Rosa here in San Antonio.  They have a Christus there in Monterey.
G: But you obviously would be concerned and you were bedridden yourself, right?
N: I was for the three days that they were able to retain me to the bed.  I think at that point, Gloria, I don’t know if it’s your adrenaline pumps in, probably.  I think because I was pretty banged up from my head, the side of my face was pretty swollen and bruised up, and I remember my mother was telling me what are you doing.  Why are you getting up?  But at that point I think I was concerned more for the whole family and of course I wanted to see Jasmine.  I hadn’t seen her until the fourth day and nobody knew what I had seen.  Nobody knew that I had seen her on the ground and that she was hurt.  They would tell me she’s okay, Norma, don’t worry, but nobody knew what I had seen.  So I was praying that everything was fine and of course when I went to go see her, you see this little girl that had shaved off all her hair.  Her head was swollen where she was unrecognizable.  She was so swollen.  And yeah, it was just a moment that it’s like what do you do?  You almost feel like is this a dream?  That this really happened.
G: I just know that there’s a huge number of our audience out there who’ve experienced that kind of experience that you had.  Heidi’s brother and my son was killed immediately and we didn’t ever see him at the accident site or he was not in the hospital.  But that’s an incredible experience, and when we come back from break, I’d like to explore that a little bit with you about your feelings for those folks out there who’ve had those feelings and how you dealt with them.  We’re coming up on break and I’m your host Dr. Gloria Horsley with my co-host Dr. Heidi Horsley.  Please stay tuned to hear more from Norma Garcia about the Loss of a Daughter and the Gift of Organ Donation.  Please feel free to call in on our toll-free number at any time.  The number is 1-866-472-5792, and you can reach us through www.thegrieblog.com and in a couple of days this show will also be archived on our blog, www.thegriefblog.com.  Stay tuned for more.
Norma, I wanted to make a comment about your book before we get back into the show again.  This book is really lovely and Norma’s a very good writer.  It’s extremely clear.  It’s an easy read, but it’s got really some deep philosophical thoughts in it which are easily read which is lovely.  And then it has a great picture of Jasmine on it.  It has some wonderful things that she wrote to her mother.  She was quite the little artist and some wonderful pictures and it’s just a really great read.  So you can go to our website, www.thegriefblog.com and there is a picture of it up there and you can order it and you can order it through Amazon.  And also you have a website, right, Norma?
N: Yes.  The book is probably going to be ready to order mid-March.  It’s still not but they can contact me and we can set up an order for them.
G: Great.  Okay, and they get to you, they could Google Norma Garcia to get to your site?
N: Yes.  It would be also www.normagarcia.net or, if you don’t mind, I can give them my email.  They can contact me by email also at ngarciarealtor@sbcglobal.net.  I would love to hear from people.
G: That’s great, and you can also email us and we’ll shoot the email on to Norma also.  That’s another way we can go.  So Norma, when we went to break, we were talking about this hideous automobile accident you had, rollover and you’re trapped in the car and Jasmine’s outside the car.  She has gone to the hospital in Monterey in Mexico and it’s been three days and you are in total pain and probably should not be getting up, right?  And you’re in the hospital and you get up and go to her room and see – and you had already seen her on the ground.  People didn’t know that.  It’s interesting because I’m sure our audience can identify with people don’t think they know what they do know.  A lot of times people are aware on how gravely ill their child is or whatever and people just don’t talk about it.
H: And sometimes mothers, I think, and parents and siblings, they get a sense deep down in their gut that something is not right.  As a mother you just kind of are in tune with your kids.
G: So tell us, when did you find out that she was brain dead?
N: Actually I know there in Mexico in the hospital they weren’t giving us much hope.  They were already telling us that the results weren’t showing much as far as her brain was, and they said but we’re going to continue to do tests.  We’re in limbo there at the hospital because since at the time they were wanting all their full payment.  That was terrible trying to deal with that and deal with also wanting them to either ― we need all this money or you need to leave the hospital.  It was a mess.
G: Oh, my goodness, and you’re pretty badly injured, aren’t you?
N: We’re very badly injured.
G: Both you and your husband.
N: Yes and they have their attorney there so I think that was my moment of also saying I need to get up and everybody was injured.  My son had to have surgery on his right leg and of course their dad also had a broken arm and he was really badly injured because we all were.  I mean we’re in this terrible rollover so I think that that also prompted me to say I need to get her to the States.  I need to get her back home.  We need to ― all of us.  I came back and was able to find help and they sent transportation for her to be moved here to San Antonio.
G: Now I want to ask you because I know you’re a religious person.  Did you have a religious strength from that while you were in the hospital?  How did you get that strength?
N: I think the strength was we were very active in our church at the time.  Their dad was a minister in the church and for over 10 years, I was in the women’s ministry in the altar ministry so of course all I knew was to get on my knees and pray, and that’s exactly what I think brought me through that time because that’s all I remember doing was crying and crying out to God and asking him ― one, I didn’t know why it had happened or what was happening, but all I knew is that I needed to be strong first for my children and then for my family.  All my family from San Antonio drove over there to Monterey to be with us and just seeing my mother and my brother and my sisters, I think that alone made me get courage and say we have to fight this. 
H: You knew you weren’t in this alone.  You had your whole family.  You were in it together as a family.
N: Yes, they were there right by our sides.  I had sisters-in-law taking care of Sammy because of course I wasn’t with him all the time in his room.  And then I had to come to San Antonio and they were there and I think throughout the whole ordeal even until now I’ve had their support, their unconditional support.
G I want to move on to the organ donation in the next segment, but before we do that I would like to ask you a little bit about the Latino culture and is there a difference that you see in the different cultures?
H: As far as the way people grieve?
N: Yes, I do because when Jasmine was pronounced brain dead, it was here in the university hospital 12 days later that they again said we’re going to do the tests.  This was two other doctors so she had been seen by four doctors and they asked us.  Then they approached us and they said we’re declaring her brain dead and then they had somebody from Texas Organ Sharing Alliance approach us also and say would you all become organ donors?  Which was new to us but I probably, I myself was more prompted to say yes and not hesitate because I said I don’t want any other family to go through what we’re going through.  The loss and just all the grieving and not knowing what.  What are you supposed to do?  I think I’ve said it in my book, too, that if they would have told me we can transplant a brain into your daughter, I would have said please, for my baby.  And I think at the moment when we said that we didn’t of course consult with the whole family.  It was just me and my husband at the time.  We said yes because of that.  It was a very difficult choice but then afterwards I think even the family, even though they wouldn’t say it right away, I think it was kind of hard for them to accept the situation of actually Jasmine’s heart and liver was going to be taken from her body.  One, why?  Because of our culture, you don’t get educated on organ donation and then two, it’s probably more of a taboo.  That’s not something you do, I think, and a lot of it is maybe there’s not enough education or misinformation of people or different beliefs or they feel that maybe the church is not going to support it, even the Catholic but I think that with education now they see that they do.  It’s the ultimate gift that you can give somebody.
G: That’s great, and several people Jasmine helped, right?
N: They were only able to use her main organs which were her heart and liver.  At the time, that’s all we had consented to.  I wasn’t educated at the time that they can use her cornea, they can use a lot of her tissue, so it was her main organs and it was just her heart and liver.  The rest of them were too deteriorated for them to use. 
G: And then you’ve got a picture in your book of the lovely young woman that received her heart.
N: Cassandra.
G: Cassandra, yes, and went on.  You’ve got a picture of her graduating.
N: Yes, she gave that to me. 
G: Is that high school or college?
N: That was high school and we were fortunate enough to meet Cassandra a year after in Jasmine’s memorial that we had for Jasmine.  All her family came down from Bay City by Houston.
H: So Jasmine’s heart went into a very young girl it sounds like.
N: I believe she was 17 years at the time, yeah.
H: Wow, that is like you said, that is really the ultimate gift you can give someone.  That is an amazing story.
G: It is an amazing thing.  Now let’s get into the cultural part.  How do you see people grieving?  Do you see Latino people grieving a little bit differently than others, or is there more emotion, or do you see any difference?
N: I don’t think I see a difference.  I think because even throughout all these years that I’ve talked to different mothers and families that I meet that lost a child, I don’t want to say it’s culture.  I think it’s just that people grieve differently regardless of if they’re Hispanic or not.  Maybe one thing I do see in our culture more is that they tend to celebrate el Dia de los Muertos which is November 2nd, the Day of the Dead.  There are certain things that they do maybe to honor the dead that maybe you don’t find in other cultures.
G: Yeah, could you talk about that because some people do those shrines and I don’t think anybody does it better than the Hispanics.
H: And what is the Day of the Dead exactly?  It sounds like a celebration of life.
N: It’s probably more to bring attention to your loved one that has passed away.  You honor them in the sense where like you said, they either create a shrine, or it’s a day that everybody makes time to go to the cemetery besides the others ― the birthdays and Mother’s Day.
H: I like that.
G: Yeah, I was thinking maybe that’s tantamount to the Decoration Day in the United States where people go decorate the graves.
N: That might be similar.
G: Which started because of World War I or something, I don’t know.  But this is much deeper, isn’t it?  The Day of the Dead.  Is that Catholic?
N: I think it’s more, yes, it’s more Catholic.
G: Now do you have a shrine?
N: No, I don’t want to say I have a shrine for my daughter.  I don’t actually go out and celebrate on the Day of the Dead.
H: Do you have anything in your own home?
N: In the house what I have is I still kept her room.  Her brother has, of course, taken that room now.  But her closet is still there.  Her closet with her clothes and her items or awards and everything is still there.  I haven’t reached that point where I want to say okay, I’m going to donate these to somebody or give these items away.  I think all her items are still there.
G: And it’s been what?  Seven years?
N: It’s been seven years.
G: I think this is so important, don’t you?  Heidi and I always talk about this, don’t we Heidi?  That there’s no time thing.
H: Right, we’re all on our own pathways to healing and everybody will know when their time is here and how they want to do things and what they want to do with clothing, etc.
G: And they may never want to do anything with it.  As therapists there used to be this kind of rule after the first year and all this kind of stuff and we find, and you talk about it in your book, that we’ve all got our own pace of grief, don’t we?
N: Yeah, and I think like I said, I’m finding that out, too.  I found that interesting because at first I know I felt guilt at times.  Am I supposed to be feeling like this?  Then all of a sudden I would find myself where I had really good days and I would want to laugh and smile like maybe within the family and then I would kind of like pull myself and say no, this is wrong.  So I kind of learned that it’s okay.  Everybody grieves differently and then it’s okay to begin to live again ― like to give yourself that permission.
G: And when did you do that?  I mean you were talking as you went, you had seminal moments in the hospital, three days after you prayed and whatever and you knew you had to have the courage to get up, right?  Even though it was painful.
N: Yeah, it was there that of course I prayed to have the courage to move on, but I think it took several years.  I want to say the first year I would still kind of close myself up to people.  I quit as far as my business.  I was still hiding myself and still trying to fight all those emotions and the guilt and the what ifs.  I would still go through the endless nights of no sleep and I want to say it was probably at least three years afterwards that I can really say okay, I would enjoy a trip without fearing if something was going to happen, because I didn’t want to travel.  I didn’t want Sammy to go outside and get on the bike.  Do you have your helmet?  I was overly protective with him.
H: We were going to ask you about that, about Sammy.
G: Yeah, when we come back from break, let’s start with finding out about Sammy and let’s also talk about you made two comments that I know our audience are going to want to hear about and that is the guilt and the what ifs.  We’re coming up on break and I’m your host Dr. Gloria Horsley with my co-host Dr. Heidi Horsley.  Please stay tuned to hear more about the Loss of a Daughter and the Gift of Organ Donation from our guest, Norma Garcia.  You can join us by calling our toll-free number 1-866-472-5792.  You can email us about this show or upcoming shows on our blog, www.thegriefblog.com and please remember that we’re having a poetry contest and this Valentine’s Day we’d love to have you write a poem for us and send it on to www.thegriefblog.com.  Please stay tuned for more.
Well, Norma, welcome back to the show.  When we went to break we were going to talk about Sammy and then we’re going to go to the guilt and what ifs.  And I want to just say again this is a wonderful book.  You can look at it on our blog, www.thegriefblog.com.  A beautiful picture of Jasmine is up there, and also I would highly recommend that you get this book.  It’s a very nice read.  There’s some nice poetry in it.  There are some biblical quotes in it and it’s just a very delightful, very touching read.  So Norma, Heidi, you want to talk about Sammy?
H: I had a couple of questions.  I guess the first one is I know that Sammy is now 14 and I wondered, Norma, what it was like for you when he was 13, the age that Jasmine died and if you were concerned that Sammy was going to die that year or if that didn’t enter your mind at all.
N: Sammy’s actually 15 now, and I think no, I didn’t worry so much at the age that he was 13.  But I think it was, like I said, after the accident, probably that year or two, that I was extremely overprotective with him because I just felt okay, we’re going to travel or if he travels with his dad, are they going to make it back safe?  So I think I got overly protective because yeah, in the back of my mind was that I don’t want anything to happen to him.
H: Right, and your reality now is that children can die because you’ve had a daughter die.
N: Yes.  The reality is that things happen in the split of a second and that we have no control.  That life sometimes surprises us.
H: He must have missed his sister so much being that they were the only two children you had.
N: Yes, he did because, I put there in the book, we had just moved into this new house 30 days and they were each going to have their own room.  Jasmine was 13.  He was 9, so up to that time they both were sharing a room together in bunk beds.  So all that time they were always together so when she was gone, I put there in the book, there was one day that he cries out to her.  He cries out to her for help almost like crying out to God for help because me and his dad were having an argument and we kind of forgot that he was there.  And he starts crying out and I’ll never forget that little voice crying out for Jasmine like, “come help me, Jasmine.”  So yeah.
G: Now you mentioned that your husband and you were having an argument.  That’s a couple of years later and do you think that the accident impacted your relationship?  I wondered if there was guilt or anger or what.
N: I think there was on both of our ends.  It’s sad to say that even though we were like I said very involved in the church and that we weren’t able to kind of come together.  I think we drew further apart.  He kept his thoughts probably more to himself.  I was more outspoken afterwards, after I got involved with the organ and tissue donation and maybe I was able to kind of express my feelings and stuff.  So I don’t know if he had maybe guilt also because he was driving and a lot of it then was there expressed within us.  It strained our relationship.
G: Did he stay in the ministry then?
N: He’s back now active in the church.  Him with Sammy and he’s wonderful as far as the relationship he has with Sammy and he makes sure, of course, Sammy goes every week with him to the youth ministry.  And of course Sammy loves to go.  We don’t have to force him or push him.  He’s grown up in the church so yeah, they’re both very involved.
G: Now do you have any special scriptures or thoughts about religion or strengths for people out there who are in those early years of loss?
N: I think as far as quoting specific ones, there are several that I would like to say and I think one is probably trust in the Lord with all your heart.  Yeah, and the other one is I can do, and that was Jasmine’s favorite, too.  I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me which is in Philippians.  And I think those are the ones that would also come to mind.  There’s several.  There’s one in Romans that says all things work for good for those who love the Lord.  So I think regardless of what your belief is, I feel for me my belief was that in the Lord and that was my ground and that kept me grounded in the time of when I wanted to fall apart.
H: And were you angry at God at all?
N: No, I wasn’t, and I wasn’t and I don’t know why.  I know that people go through a stage of anger.  I’m thankful that I wasn’t.  I know that I cried a lot, of course, everybody does, but to me it was mostly in the evening when nobody was around or Sammy wouldn’t see me, was in the middle of the night, was being in the rest room on my knees and I would be sobbing to the Lord in prayer and I think that was one of my prayers was don’t let me get bitter because I knew that very easily I could start blaming.  I could have started blaming my husband.  I could have started blaming God.  I could have started feeling as a victim like, why us?  And I didn’t want that.  I had always been a very, I want to say, optimistic person and I want to continue to be.  It wasn’t easy and it hasn’t been easy, but I think I had to make a choice.  I think everybody, you have to make a choice in life when you have a situation like this or any other one that okay, what am I going to learn from this?  Why was I left on this earth?  And live a life of gratitude.
H: And so you found your meaning and why you were here.
N: I did.  I believe I was left here to share my story to encourage others and to say that there is nothing that you can go through in this life that your spirit cannot overcome, that you cannot have the strength to live a joyful life again and to wake up and say thank you, Lord, for another day of life.
G: And that’s an amazing thing because not only was Jasmine killed seven years ago but then you had to face a divorce also.
H: Which is another loss.
N: It’s another loss.
G: And how did you deal with that for our audience out there?
N: I think that that took a big strain on me as far as even going through the process of even going to get a divorce.  We had already been married 16 years.  We would have been married 20 years now, but I think it did take a strain on me.  I was on a roller coaster.  It was one day I felt good, the other day I was very depressed and again we were going to try to work it out.  Then it was about two years doing that and it did take a big strain on me.  I think it was very difficult for me to let go.  I didn’t want to let go because another disappointment and another loss and as a woman I think I finally came to the point where I said I can’t.  I have to move on and I can’t live like this any longer.
G: So that was what, five years ago?
N: That was four years ago.
G: Four years ago.  And could you talk a little bit about Sammy?  How’s he dealt with all this?
N: I think Sammy has dealt with it much better than I think what we realize that he was going to because one, he had lost a sister and then he went through also of course losing a parent ― not losing but from home.  And at first it was very painful when I told Sammy we’re getting a divorce.  I think Sammy, since he’s been raised in the church, I think it’s helped him to be also a little boy that’s very positive, optimistic and has a lot of faith.  He even helps me on the days maybe that I’m not having a good day so I think he’s dealt with it quite well.
G: In looking at the book, Jasmine wrote these little pieces to you like Mother’s Day and whatever and she would put a scripture in there.  Is he like that, too? 
N: He’s extremely like that, Gloria.  He is.  I think I’m grateful for that but he holds me to my every word.  Mom, why aren’t you going to church?  Remember what you used to tell me?  Oh, yes, he does.  He does.  I think because probably one, he saw what got us through this and he knew that we very much believed in prayer and where our strength comes from, and that’s how he’s been raised so of course he’s like any other teenager.  He likes to have fun and with his friends, but I think when it comes down to it and in his privacy at home, yeah, he will always let me know, Mom, remember what the Bible says, Mom.
H: So both Jasmine and Sammy sound very spiritual.
N: They are.  I think they are.  Like I said, they’re nonetheless just like any other normal teenagers.  Sammy is, but yeah, he is.  I think he’s pretty grounded and I hope he keeps that up.
G: Now you had a career and you kind of gave it up and then you opened your – Were you a realtor when Jasmine died?
N: Yeah, I had been a realtor for a year and then when she passed away, of course, I didn’t want anything to do.  I had months where I would book my calendar full and then I had those days where I was real depressed and I would go in and cancel all my appointments.  So I kind of stopped for a year.  I didn’t want anything to do and then I said slowly but surely I need to start getting out of the house.  I need to start trying to live again and just this last September I opened up this real estate office here.  I bought a franchise here in San Antonio.
G: That’s great, how are you doing?
N: We’re doing well.  We have 28 executives here in the office so we’re doing well.
G: Oh, great.  And what’s the name of it for our audience?
N: It’s Realty Executives River City.
G: So if you’re in that area, in the San Antonio area, right? 
N: Yes, stop by and visit.
G: That’s great.  Well, I wanted to give this quote that you had in the book, the Abraham Lincoln quote, because I think that’s kind of what you’re about right now, isn’t it?  Do you know the quote I’m going to say?
N: Yeah, I know what you’re going to say.  I don’t know it by heart, but yes.
G: Yeah, you’ve had it in there.  Abraham Lincoln said to ease another’s heartache is to forget one’s own.  And I think that’s very key right now for you because you are so involved in helping others through organ donation, right?
N: Yes, I am.  That’s one of my passions.  Yeah.  And I get to share my story.
G: And tell us about how you do that and –
N: Okay, I started with Texas Organ Sharing Alliance.  The year after Jasmine passed away they had invited us to go to a quilt ceremony, a tree-planting ceremony.  There’s different things that they do here locally and they would ask if I would share my story and I began to share my story with other people.  One, because they have a face to relate to.  They’re talking to a donor mom and you get to see some of the recipients, too.  And it’s amazing to see the children and the grownups, the second chance of life they get.  So I do that one, by speaking locally.  Sometimes I have groups from different hospitals when the OPOs that they want us to speak to, especially the nurses that are in the intensive care because one, it also gives them the feeling of what a donor family’s going through.  And also to encourage them to keep doing what they’re doing because it’s a very difficult situation that they’re in that they have to approach the families.  So I’m involved doing that.  We do annual –
G: Let me interrupt you for a minute because I think that is amazing, giving support to professionals.  Don’t you, Heidi?
H: Yeah, and I think it’s great because I would think for a family you never want to give up hope.  So to say yes, I will donate the organs is kind of like admitting yes, this person is going to die.  And that’s got to be tough.  Yes, I love that they’re consulting with a parent, the professionals are consulting with a parent.
G: Well, I also like that the parents are helping the professionals.
H: That’s what I mean.  I love that because you are the expert, you’ve been there, you’ve been through it.
G: And to also give them support to do it because as you said, it’s not an easy thing to approach parents.  Even for us sometimes on the show, there are difficult subjects for people and it’s hard.  So that’s great that you’re doing that.  Well, it’s time for us to go to break and when we come back we’re going to talk more with Norma Garcia about the Loss of a Daughter and the Gift of Organ Donation.  It’s Valentine’s Day today and we would like you to make sure that you give yourself a Valentine today because you’re certainly the Valentines for us, and we appreciate all of our listeners very much on this day.  So it’s going to be our last break and we are going to ask Norma if there’s anything that we’ve missed that she’d like to say on the show today so please stay tuned for more.
Well, Norma, this is our last break and I just wanted to again talk about this beautiful book, My Dear Jasmine: A Journey from Tragedy to Triumph.  And I want to congratulate you on writing a wonderful book.  It’s amazing.  How did you decide to write the book?
N: I think one thing led to the other.  I have a friend here locally and she had wrote a book and she called me and said Norma, I just wrote a book and we had met three years prior and she knew my story.  And her book is called Elijah on My Mind for teen parents.  But she called me and she was so excited and she said I want to meet with you.  And she said remember you had commented about your story and that you wanted to maybe one day share your story?  She said I want to help you, so I think it wouldn’t have been possible without Nina’s help.  Her name is Nina Marie Duran.  She was the editor of the book because she actually would come to the house, made it real comfortable for me because one, I didn’t think, I said I’m not a writer and she was just here.  She would ask me questions and she was writing them down.  Then she said just get on the computer and start writing out your emotions or thoughts and that’s exactly what I did.  That’s all I did.  I sat on my computer.  There was a lot of crying because I think there was a lot of healing.  It was meant to be because there was a lot of healing that writing this book brought to me because I had to search.  I had to remember things.  And she was the one that helped me, and I thought, what better way to honor Jasmine?  What better way?  Right away I said I want her picture on the front and then I thought also of like I said, Samuel, that okay, we’ve gone through this, son, but that’s okay.  We’re going to be fine and we’re still going to have a good life after this.  We can still look forward to dreaming and having a better life even though we’ve gone through this.  And then the thought was how many people can benefit from reading this book.  That no matter what you go through, if it’s a loss, if it’s a divorce, if it’s chaos that you think you’re facing and that you’re not going to make it, that there’s hope.  Look, I’ve gone through this and I’ve overcome.  These are maybe the baby steps I took or the healing process.  It might be different for you but you can overcome.
G: Well, you certainly accomplished all those in the book.  It’s wonderful and I wanted to read a poem from the book and tell us a little bit about it.  It’s called “Set a Place for Me.”  Who wrote this for you?
N: Yes, that poem was written by a neighbor.  It was probably about six years ago that the neighbor next to us gave me that poem and she didn’t want me to place her name on it.  I had told her I was going to put it in the book but when I read it, it was beautiful and I said it has to be placed in this book.  As Gloria reads it, you’re going to see why.
G: Yes, it’s very touching.  I’m leaving a little bit of the middle out to make it a little shorter for the show, so if you want to hear the whole thing, you will want to get the book from our website, www.thegriefblog.com.  It’s called “Set a Place for Me.” 
If you could see the things I see,
How happy you would be.
The love that’s all around me here,
My life eternally.
By angels I’m surrounded.
They call me by my name.
Jasmine, you’re an angel,
No sorrow now, no pain. 
He said he knew you’d miss me.
My laughter, hugs and smiles.
But that He’d take good care of me
‘til you join me in a while. 
So when you set the table,
I hope one thing you’ll do
Is set a special place for me
And I’ll set three for you. 
Really wonderful, beautiful piece of poetry. 
H: Very powerful.
G: Very touching.  Well, Heidi was talking during break about Chet Zuber, a man we had on who received his daughter’s heart and actually had an appearance.  Do you remember that, Heidi?  He heard her voice in the elevator.  He wasn’t going to do it and her voice said, “Please take my heart.”
H: Yeah.
G: And it’s just amazing.  I’m sure you hear stories like that when you’re going around about the wonderful things that happen with organ donation, don’t you?
N: Yes, you do.  And it’s amazing, like I said.  To me the greatest thing is to see either a child or an adult and they tell me I’m a recipient, I received.  And okay, what did you receive?  A heart or a kidney and then to see them so vibrant and full of life.  That’s amazing.  Or when they show me their before and after pictures.  It’s just amazing to see that they were given that second chance of life.
G: And talk about what it does for you giving service.
N: I think it’s part of my healing, Gloria.  I want to say that it’s part of my healing.  As you well know, there’s days that of course I miss Jasmine.  I always do, I always wish.  She’s always in my heart and I think to me it brings me so much comfort to know that I’m able to see others benefit from organ and tissue donation and just to see others also that by sharing my story that they’re also benefiting from that.
G: So it took you how long do you feel before you felt like really reaching out?
N: I think I started probably a year after, but I think even a year after I was still going through a lot more struggles as far as having days where you have really good days and really bad days.  I think we also do in life, but I mean those days where I wouldn’t want to get out of bed.  I think probably I want to say two years ago is when I can literally tell you that I’m probably feeling much better physically because I had a lot of healing to do also after the rollover accident.  Because what I notice is that when you’re going through depression once my mind started giving up on me ― what I mean going into like depression and the thoughts, that my knees would hurt, then my elbows would hurt, then I would get a headache, then all of a sudden I was tired.  So it would take slowly and I would catch myself and I’d say it’s because I’m starting to feel depressed and all the other aches started in my body.  So I started I guess one, getting to know my body, starting taking care of myself, taking long walks and just going through a healing process and trying to say – I’m a believer in needing to fight things and saying this is not the way that the Lord wants me to live.  This wasn’t meant for me.  If I’m going to live, I want to live fully and I want to be healthy and I want to be joyful and I want to be able to give to others.
G: And what would you say to our audience out there in closing who are suffering right now through an early loss?
N: I think through an early loss I would say give yourself time to heal.  One, understand everybody heals differently.  Nobody can tell you you are supposed to cry, don’t cry, how long.  Nobody has the perfect time period and it’s okay if you have pictures of your loved one out, it’s okay if you don’t.  There are no rules I guess in grieving but do allow yourself to slowly start again smiling, taking care of yourself, that it’s okay to live again.
G: Great.  That’s a wonderful way to end the show.  Well, Norma, thank you so much for being on the show.  You’re an inspiration and you’ve been through so much and you’re very inspiring.  So it’s time to close our show and I want to thank Norma Garcia and please stay tuned again next week when our topic will be Finding Meaning After a Brother Dies of a Drug Overdose.  And our guest will be Dr. Nancy Rosenbledt, a psychologist, and we’ll be talking a lot about sibling loss.  This show is archived on our blog, www.thegriefblog.com as well as www.thecompassionatefriends.org website.  Please stay tuned again next Thursday at 9:00 Pacific Standard Time and 12:00 Eastern for more of Healing the Grieving Heart, a show of hope and renewal and support.  Remember, others have been there before you and made it.  You can, too.  You need not walk alone.  I’m your host Dr. Gloria Horsley with my co-host
H: Dr. Heidi Horsley.  Norma, Jasmine is gone but never forgotten.  She lives on in your heart and memories and in all the work you do.  Thank you for educating the public about organ donation and for saving lives every day.  Thank you, Norma.
N: Thank you, Gloria and Heidi, for your show.